S4, E03: Checking Vitals

Justin Klee (00:02):
I think Josh and I like to dream big, it's how we started.

Chris Claussen (00:08):
No one knows for sure what's next. Other than progress is being made.

Valerie Estess (00:16):
When different people come together and work around one goal, that goal can be achieved faster.

Gina Mullane (00:34):
Hi, I'm Gina Mullane.

Todd Poley (00:35):
And I'm Todd Poley.

Gina Mullane (00:37):
Welcome to Checking Vitals. It's our last Vital Science episode of 2022, and it's our first ever episode where Todd and I catch up together. Hey Todd, you recently joined our Vital Science team. How are you finding things so far?

Todd Poley (00:53):
Oh, hey, Gina. Yeah, I'm really excited to be joining the team and I've been a longtime listener of the podcast. I personally am a big believer in the power of storytelling, so to be able to be on this side of it behind the curtain and seeing this vantage point, it really reminds me of how grateful we are to be in this industry and the amazing things that are being done in the world of drug discovery. And I think about some of the podcasts we've done this season, specifically in the neuroscience space, and excited to reflect on those.

Gina Mullane (01:25):
I agree. And as I think about the last year and reflect on it a bit, it's kind of a nice opportunity to highlight some updates from some of our stories, some of our stories that may have hit home a little bit more.

Todd Poley (01:40):
You're so right. And I think it's so important to realize that these interviews are just moments in time in their journey, and I'm excited to talk about the progress that these guests have made since they were on the show. I think we talked about three episodes specifically that we're going to recap.

Gina Mullane (01:55):
Yeah. So one in particular comes to mind, it's a company that we have been following for quite a while, Amylyx Pharmaceuticals. And when we first met the co CEOs, Joshua Cohen and Justin Klee, it was back in early 2020, before the pandemic, at their facility, face to face. It was a fun episode. And then we caught up again with them in January and they were starting to really outgrow that term startup.

Todd Poley (06:04):
Exactly, it's really amazing. And I'm going to put a pin in this, I have a feeling that this won't be the last time we featured Josh and Justin on Vital Science.

Gina Mullane (06:14):
Now that's if Hollywood doesn't get them first. We have had some truly inspiring stories on Vital Science, another one that really comes to mind is from the past season, from our conversation with Chris Claussen, of First Person and Leiio Wellness.

Chris Claussen (06:32):
My background into this whole journey of brain health really began with my brother and our father and grandfather. So when we were younger, we saw our grandfather succumb to Alzheimer's disease and it was really painful for everybody involved. And he went through it, passed away from it, and then we didn't think much about it again until our father then started going through the same thing. And he had about a 10-year battle with Alzheimer's disease and passed away last year. And as that progressed, it's really a complete tragedy and eye-opener, particularly if you've got two generations ahead of you suffering from it, you start to realize, "Hey, I'm next. This is coming right at me and what can I do to change?" So my younger brother and I did a real deep dive starting then, in how can we prevent this from happening to us? And at that time, there wasn't a lot of information out there.

Todd Poley (07:44):
I'm always amazed by the grit of our guests, to somehow raise funds and gather their team to make these drug discoveries, but the odds were stacked even higher against Chris and his brother Joe because of this stigma that exists around psychedelics here in the US.

Gina Mullane (08:02):
It's so true. That feels like a stigma that's been in place for over 50 years, going all the way back to Nixon's war on drugs campaign. But I do think we're starting to see the tide turn a bit with SPRAVATO, the ketamine derived nasal spray that was derived for the treatment of depression back in 2019, it feels like progress and forward momentum on this subject.

Todd Poley (08:27):
There is a lot of progress being made, and there's also this research being done in areas like PTSD and substance abuse. I just recently was at the Society for Neuroscience Conference in San Diego and was able to hear this panel around the therapeutic value for psychedelics and really the roadblocks that we're experiencing right now with the cultural stigma when we're talking about microdosing. And so I think it's really important to focus in on the pathways that we're seeing on the clinical side of things and how we navigate through these cultural dynamics and really focus on the therapeutic value and the long term value that we're hoping to see.

Chris Claussen (09:17):
That you don't have to have something wrong with you for this to be incorporated in your life. And I personally think that's the bigger part of what psychedelics can bring, is just a betterment of your human condition on a daily basis, not necessarily always fixing something that's wrong with you, but it's just improving as you go. It's a tool to make yourself better.

Gina Mullane (09:46):
Yeah. And it is truly incredible that Chris followed his dream all the way to market. I know earlier this year, his company, First Person, they launched a product line that harnesses the power of functional mushrooms and natural ingredients to improve cognition. Pretty incredible.

Todd Poley (10:04):
Yeah. So when you look at the science behind this, it's not that far off from what we see with SSRIs. The goal is to support the body's natural production of dopamine, oxytocin, or gaba neurotransmitters to help achieve the desired effect.

Gina Mullane (10:19):
It feels like this could be a first step in a whole new category of therapeutics. First Person is actually building a culture library of psychedelic mushrooms to advance research and development.

Todd Poley (10:30):
Yeah, it's really interesting. I just hope this really encourages other scientists to begin investigating the use of psilocybin and other psychedelic compounds.

Gina Mullane (10:42):
Yeah, that's a really good point. And I think, as we've seen in lots of other treatment areas, there's definitely power in numbers.

Todd Poley (10:51):
I really loved our discussion with Valerie. It began with a personal cause, which is something we see so often, sisters who had lost one of their own to a fatal disease and really wanted to make a difference.

Valerie (11:08):
The legacy for Project ALS is that we all are in this together. The love of sisters is a big thing, it kicked off a movement that I think is growing in momentum and there's lots of progress to be hopeful about. But again, I think the legacy for Project ALS is not just a blind hope, it's hope based on aggressive, rational research. It's the only way we're going to get there, and we're committed to that to the end.

Gina Mullane (11:52):
And when we spoke earlier this year, one of the organization's main research focuses was on treating the mutation of the FUS gene. And this gene causes an ultra rare form of ALS that's actually called FUS ALS. And I know this mutation strikes a small number of patients, but it's a really virulent form, and sadly, it tends to target teenage girls.

Valerie Estess (12:21):
People really banded together around a very personal issue regarding FUS and started working together and actually generated the world's first ASO or gene therapy for FUS ALS, which was a bit of a miracle. And so I love to talk about that story because it shows that when different people come together and work around one goal, that goal can be achieved faster. Now, this is something we learn in kindergarten, but we don't always execute very well in adulthood, but I think in the case of FUS ALS and our drive to create this world's first medicine for FUS ALS called Jacifusen, is an exception. And it's just a shining example of what can happen when people work together.

Todd Poley (13:19):
Since we last chatted, Project ALS has really maintained this momentum. They've been able to foster this collaboration to bring a new mathematical model for the treatment of ALS. This new method automatically categorizes the cells from skin samples from ALS patients based on their physical properties. So by using a machine learning algorithm, scientists are able to distinguish between healthy and FUS ALS cells and create a disease spectrum along which to categorize protein expression patterns of other ALS cells. It's really impressive.

Gina Mullane (13:54):
That sounds like a huge time saver for researchers, similar to the new cellular model and rapid screening tool from Project ALS. And in this model, it's actually based in yeast, because yeast grows really rapidly and can be cultured in large numbers. It's an ideal method for screening compounds that could be effective therapies for ALS at various concentrations. This new model could help promising compounds be transferred into new models developed by Project ALS.

Todd Poley (14:28):
Don't you love that? It's just really exciting to see the development and commitment that they've had to this. As you know, there are hundreds of ALS mutations out there, and this team is really investing and creating these tools that are needed to accelerate the treatment development for those mutations. So it just reminds me of this old adage of really working smarter and not harder.

Gina Mullane (14:52):
Yeah. So much progress being made in critical disease areas, and in a lot of cases, it started with one person and their commitment to make a difference against all odds when others didn't even think it was possible.

Todd Poley (15:07):
Yeah. So Gina, I really can't think of a better note to end on. As we head into the new year, we will continue to share these stories of scientific discovery and really aim to inspire during our new season of Vital Science, which kicks off in January.

Gina Mullane (15:25):
I'm looking so forward to it. It's been a great year, lots of interesting and exciting stories, lots of amazing people. And until then, I wish you the happiest of holidays, Todd, and to all our listeners, thanks so much for listening.

Todd Poley (15:44):
Happy holidays everyone.